Thread  RSS Covid Vaccine Requirements



# 16166 2 months ago on Mon, Aug 23 2021 at 8:27 am

I really do not agree with some of the measures being taken in this pandemic. Much of what is happening now really does look authoritarian to me. The reasons given for the measures don't make them any less tyrannical.

Things do not add up in terms of how the virus continues to spread even among the vaccinated and, yet, some major cities are implementing vaccine passports. The vaccines are effective in reducing the severity of the illness but do not stop the spread, so it is strange that the vaccine requirements are so strict. It seems to me that proper masking, social distancing, and a massive drive to develop better vaccines should be top priority over vaccine passports. Clearly what we have is not good enough.

Getting the shots is still a great idea because it will likely protect you from the worst outcomes but I know that some people, even locally, have died from the virus despite being fully vaccinated. The media blames the unvaccinated for the variants but, if the vaccinated can still catch and spread it, it can still mutate in everyone regardless of vaccination status. The unvaccinated are mainly hurting themselves.

It doesn't appear that herd immunity will be achieved through the current vaccines. I'm no immunologist so maybe I'm missing something important here, though.

So, in my opinion, a lot of the mandates and heavy-handed enforcement measures are either a result of a totally blind panic by the authorities or it's about raw power. I would not go so far as to suggest that this whole situation was caused for this purpose but there is a long history of tyrants exploiting any crisis to gain additional power.

If we can get booster shots or just better vaccines overall, once they demonstrate better efficacy then maybe the requirements would make more sense.

One last thing: If the quarantine camps are really implemented, it would be foolish to ignore the historical parallels regardless of their justification. I'll probably get in trouble or labeled as a whacko for saying all of this but, honestly, at this point I just needed to speak my mind on the matter.

73's, KD8FUD

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# 16167 2 months ago on Mon, Aug 23 2021 at 4:28 pm

On Monday, August 23rd, 2021 at 1:27 pm, Nitrocosm said:

So, in my opinion, a lot of the mandates and heavy-handed enforcement measures are either a result of a totally blind panic by the authorities or it's about raw power. I would not go so far as to suggest that this whole situation was caused for this purpose but there is a long history of tyrants exploiting any crisis to gain additional power.

Oh, no, not you too, Nitro. undecided More of this conspiracy theory about how the pandemic is all about government wanting more power. Honestly I thought you were above that.

If we can get booster shots or just better vaccines overall, once they demonstrate better efficacy then maybe the requirements would make more sense.

We have to work with what we have. Everything you suggested here is a good idea but the requirements make sense as things are right now.

One last thing: If the quarantine camps are really implemented, it would be foolish to ignore the historical parallels regardless of their justification.

Come on. Governments are not trying to re-create Nazi Germany (which is what it sounds like you're implying). The quarantine centers are to isolate the infected in order to prevent the spread of the virus and save lives. It's not a plan to round everyone up and kill them, just to protect the vulnerable population by isolating people who will spread the virus and kill others.

I'll probably get in trouble or labeled as a whacko for saying all of this but, honestly, at this point I just needed to speak my mind on the matter.

At the risk of getting myself in trouble, just consider asking yourself if the shoe fits, wear it? Just kidding (sort of) but maybe you've been getting your news from the wrong people.

Waff-O! waffle

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# 16168 2 months ago on Mon, Aug 23 2021 at 9:23 pm

On Monday, August 23rd, 2021 at 9:28 pm, Miroku said:

On Monday, August 23rd, 2021 at 1:27 pm, Nitrocosm said:

So, in my opinion, a lot of the mandates and heavy-handed enforcement measures are either a result of a totally blind panic by the authorities or it's about raw power. I would not go so far as to suggest that this whole situation was caused for this purpose but there is a long history of tyrants exploiting any crisis to gain additional power.

Oh, no, not you too, Nitro. undecided More of this conspiracy theory about how the pandemic is all about government wanting more power. Honestly I thought you were above that.

If we can get booster shots or just better vaccines overall, once they demonstrate better efficacy then maybe the requirements would make more sense.

We have to work with what we have. Everything you suggested here is a good idea but the requirements make sense as things are right now.

One last thing: If the quarantine camps are really implemented, it would be foolish to ignore the historical parallels regardless of their justification.

Come on. Governments are not trying to re-create Nazi Germany (which is what it sounds like you're implying). The quarantine centers are to isolate the infected in order to prevent the spread of the virus and save lives. It's not a plan to round everyone up and kill them, just to protect the vulnerable population by isolating people who will spread the virus and kill others.

I'll probably get in trouble or labeled as a whacko for saying all of this but, honestly, at this point I just needed to speak my mind on the matter.

At the risk of getting myself in trouble, just consider asking yourself if the shoe fits, wear it? Just kidding (sort of) but maybe you've been getting your news from the wrong people.

I understand where you're coming from, but here's something to consider:

There have always been fringe groups of conspiracy theorists and the like. I truly never found my opinions or beliefs to align with "conspiracy" until the Covid situation began. I think it's worth considering how many people that weren't "conspiracy theorists" (using the quotations because I don't think it's always the fairest label, but the term is used a lot so it's a good reference point) before, like me, are wary of the vaccination situation. I was fine with the mask and distancing (though obviously one day hope we don't have to!); I was pretty strongly against lockdowns and school closures, but that's just me and I of course have a different perspective than you and you have a different one than me.

That rambling paragraph is basically to say that if there are suddenly so many people falling on the "conspiracy" side, maybe there's some truth to it? I definitely don't want to compare the current situation to Nazi Germany or the like so far, but that was initiated with by spreading fear of the Jewish people as carriers of disease. Of course, this doesn't perfectly align with that by any means because one can't choose to be Jewish but anyone could theoretically get vaccinated. So, yes, any discrimination that does happen regarding the vaccination (and I want to again convey that I'm not saying anything near it has happened by any means) is absolutely a different type of discrimination than what happened in Germany. HOWEVER, can we all agree that we don't want any kind of discrimination to happen - and that allowing this may lead to other things being accepted.

A lot of things that I never thought would happen have happened in the past 12 months and that freaks me out a bit. I've believed from the start that Focused Protection is the way to go. Take safety measures where possible but not to the point that it begins to cause damage in other directions. For instance, the school district I go to saw a steep drop across all subjects after a year of remote learning. Cancer patients died when they couldn't get checked up on because hospitals were reserved for Covid patients. Child abuse went undetected more because parents had their kids at home all the time. Things like that worry me. I'll be honest, it also somewhat worries me when people justify all of this by saying "Well, it prevents Covid from spreading.". Of course we want that, but I personally believe it can not happen at all costs.

There are absolutely poor news sources regarding Covid (let's just say there are two extremes we should all avoid wink). The news gives you facts, but it largely avoids presenting the facts that go against the fear narrative (fear sells). Yes there are some wacko Facebook, Instagram and webpages that have some dangerous misinformation about Covid, and I believe these unfortunately undermine the truth as people believe everything not spot-on with the news narrative is "misinformation". I'm not a big researcher, but I've spent a lot of time this past year researching straight from the CDC data and peer-reviewed studies and there are some things there that much of the media has purposely skipped.

Hopefully this response wasn't too crazy and Nitro is okay with it for this website, but my point is that if so much of the population is wary of the current narrative, maybe there's a fair reason to be. Also, not all information is misinformation.

Have a happy New Year!

# 16169 2 months ago on Tue, Aug 24 2021 at 3:44 am

On Monday, August 23rd, 2021 at 9:28 pm, Miroku said:

Oh, no, not you too, Nitro. undecided More of this conspiracy theory about how the pandemic is all about government wanting more power. Honestly I thought you were above that.

Miroku, I didn't say the pandemic was all about a power grab. I said it was being used to justify one. The pandemic happens to be a perfect excuse for more or less authoritarian measures and setting precedents for such.

At the risk of getting myself in trouble, just consider asking yourself if the shoe fits, wear it? Just kidding (sort of) but maybe you've been getting your news from the wrong people.

Now, you're not going to get in trouble for saying that but I do take exception to your remark. I try hard not to be tyrannical in running this forum and want people to have the ability to speak their mind but I have to say it's not fair to label people as conspiracy theorists just because they question authority.

On Tuesday, August 24th, 2021 at 2:23 am, bates said:

A lot of things that I never thought would happen have happened in the past 12 months and that freaks me out a bit.

Same here, bates, as you know. The phrase "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely" comes to mind but there's also the fact that people in power obtained their power because they sought it. Very few people hold power against their own wishes, after all.

I'll be honest, it also somewhat worries me when people justify all of this by saying "Well, it prevents Covid from spreading.". Of course we want that, but I personally believe it can not happen at all costs.

Some of the measures taken actually cause covid to spread, oddly enough. I don't want to get overly political but the Governor of New York, who stepped down yesterday due to unrelated reasons, had implemented some measures in the name of stopping covid that actually got people killed... from covid.

Hopefully this response wasn't too crazy and Nitro is okay with it for this website, but my point is that if so much of the population is wary of the current narrative, maybe there's a fair reason to be. Also, not all information is misinformation.

Your response was spot on, in my opinion. Not everyone will agree and that's okay. Indeed, not all information is disinformation. Most disagreement with authority is labeled as misinformation these days. I mean, true disinformation exists out there but most of us have enough sense to filter that out.

73's, KD8FUD

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